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JTS to NRL; the Titans juniors transition lounge

H

Hail Sezer

Moderator
Hi All,

As we know, mdrew has been doing a magnificent job of documenting anything and everything in the world of Titans junior development - so much so that he's had NRL clubs reach out to him to pick his brain. I wanted to create something that connected mdrew's information to the NRL squad, because it can get a bit murky when we're talking about Development Contracts, Train and Trials, Part-time v Full-time etc. Who are the next crop that we can expect to see joining JC, Toby & Brimmo at the top level? How far away is this "pipeline" of juniors that HS keeps going on about? How many of them are there and how many can we expect to make it? Well, hopefully I can answer all your questions in here and we can learn a bit about pathways and junior development along the way.

It is important I do add this caveat before we begin. The reality is, the % of players that convert from star juniors to NRL players is extremely low - historically, perhaps one in each respective age group, at each club, will transition directly from juniors to NRL and go on to have an NRL career that goes beyond one contract (unless you're Penrith but we'll come back to this). Some will play Qcup/NSWCup for a few years and then find their way into a system. Others will bounce to Super League to forge a career. Having a strong junior development system not only improves your chances of developing players instead of having to rely on the market, but it brings players through that have an attachment to the club, are passionate and wanting to represent the area, have chemistry with players they have come through the system with, and hopefully will eventually choose to stay at their local club for less than they could secure on the market. It naturally improves your club morale, culture and identity, but it also vastly improves a club's ability to get the most out of a salary cap and subsequently form a stronger roster. Now of course you can't rely exclusively on your junior system to build a roster. But as I understand it the philosophy is that if you build from a junior system, and complement from the market - instead of the other way around - you'll have a much better chance of sustainable success. Look no further than the Penrith Panthers who are now having multiple NRL-quality juniors debuting every year, and you best believe it is entirely by design.

TLDR; The purpose of this thread is to:
-Provide information on JTS players in the U18-U21 age groups (nearing or featuring in the extended NRL squad in some capacity)
-Provide insight on these players and in my opinion (and anyone who chooses to jump in) how far away they are from NRL
-Provide insight into how this transition process from junior system to NRL works
-Answer any questions about any players at this end of the pathway system, or the pathway system in general
-Generally bridge the gap between our junior system and the NRL squad
-Open up the bigger picture on the Titans a little bit - beyond the 80 minutes we see on TV every weekend

A quick glossary of terms:
-JTS = Junior Titans System (player is signed to a junior contract, anywhere from U15's to U21's). Players are involved in regular JTS coaching clinics, feature in exhibition games for Titans age group sides, etc. I'll use this term to classify a player that is in the Titans system but not full-time (i.e. not NRL eligible).
-Development Contract = Full time with NRL, outside of top 30. Can play NRL after round 11.
-MM = Mal Meninga Cup, i.e. QLD U18 rep comp
-Langer = Langer Trophy, i.e. QLD Schools comp
-HDC = Hastings Deerings Colts, i.e. QLD U21's comp (mirrors Qcup)
-Full-time - Player is signed to a contract whereby they are either Top 30 or on a Development Contract, and thus full time with the NRL squad. PLayer is eligible to play NRL.
-Part-time - Player is signed to a particular contract whereby they are not top 30 or on a Development Contract, but still involved with the NRL squad in some capacity. Thus as part time with the NRL squad. This is case-by-case, usually short-term and dependent on the contract but generally they still do get paid, and this is a key indicator for a junior that they are looking to expose to the NRL squad before potentially bringing them in full time. Player is not eligible to play NRL. The Titans typically use this for their pre-season train and trialists, or in-season JTS members or feeder club players that they want to get a better look at by participating in NRL sessions.

Let's get into it :)
 
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Players U21 that are yet to debut, are JTS graduates and currently involved with the NRL squad in a full-time capacity:

2022 NRL Top 30 (age, position, highest level played&team):
-Jojo Fifita (19, centre/wing, Qcup Tweed)
-Lofi Khan-Pereira (20, wing, Qcup Burleigh)

2022 NRL Development Contract (age, position, current level played&team):
-Tom Weaver (19, halfback, HDC Tweed)
-Tony Francis (19, centre/wing, Qcup Burleigh)
 
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Great Thread and cant wait for the discussion and MDREW insights also. I remember MDREW way back talking about people like AJ coming through the ranks, I love the insights and then following the players development. But agree HS not all the junior stars make it to the NRL, but its always a good discussion point. Plus I must mention what Jamie McCormack has done in the last few years with the JTS program, MDREW has given some great insights into what this man has done to get to the point where we are at know.
 
Great thread HS with a nod to mdrew for his continued efforts. Could I suggest at some stage there might a bit added about the personalities behind the scenes and how the identification and recruitment process works.
 
GCTTSD said:
How would you compare Kini with the likes of AJ, JC and even De Groot?
Click to expand...

Kini is still U18 so if I was comparing them all at that same age, it'd be very close between him and AJ. Gun to my head, I'd say Keano has been the best at U18 level. Then AJ, De Groot, and then JC (who bloomed very late but really took off once he did).

They're all very different stylistically too. Keano is a dynamic runner of the ball, great footwork, very quick with great balance and agility. Breaks plenty of tackles and hits the contact hard. Just wrecks teams with how elusive he is. Has a passing game but it's a bit off-the-cuff instead of well-timed from shape. Makes tough 1 on 1 tackles. Then De Groot at the other end of the scale is very much a role-player as a fullback. Positioning spot on, safe as houses, always finds himself around the ball, does plenty of work off the ball, ultimate support player - someone you can plug into a system and give a role and he should execute.

The biggest question with Keano is going to be what position he settles in to. His strengths are best displayed as a fullback in juniors but I think with the right coaching many see his future as a 5/8 (and the Titans have tried to play him there for a few of their age-group JTS exhibition games).

@mdrew feel free to jump in mate, interested to hear your thoughts here
 
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Excellent thread and even better project to educate the Titans fan base.

For far far too long such knowledge is either assumed or more likely not even considered when there are discussions about our Junior set up. I'm talking top down from the NRL, QRL and clubs.

I've already learned quite a few things already. For example I didn't know what HDC was.

I'm all for a dose of hopium because let's face it. We come here for a positive hit of something, information, a laugh, added insight, unique take, cutting edge idea or something interesting. And I think it is good to have a more fleshed out understanding to appreciate how difficult it is to make it to the NRL and how long a journey it is.

Having a glossary of terms is a great idea and hopefully it is the start of many more people enjoying the watching our juniors come through. Because it really is a tremendous strength of this club if we can harness it.
 
Hail Sezer said:
Kini is still U18 so if I was comparing them all at that same age, it'd be very close between him and AJ. Gun to my head, I'd say Keano has been the best at U18 level. Then AJ, De Groot, and then JC (who bloomed very late but really took off once he did).

They're all very different stylistically too. Keano is a dynamic runner of the ball, great footwork, very quick with great balance and agility. Breaks plenty of tackles and hits the contact hard. Just wrecks teams with how elusive he is. Has a passing game but it's a bit off-the-cuff instead of well-timed from shape. Makes tough 1 on 1 tackles. Then De Groot at the other end of the scale is very much a role-player as a fullback. Positioning spot on, safe as houses, always finds himself around the ball, does plenty of work off the ball, ultimate support player - someone you can plug into a system and give a role and he should execute.

The biggest question with Keano is going to be what position he settles in to. His strengths are best displayed as a fullback in juniors but I think with the right coaching many see his future as a 5/8 (and the Titans have tried to play him there for a few of their age-group JTS exhibition games).

@mdrew feel free to jump in mate, interested to hear your thoughts here
Click to expand...

Thanks it's hard not to look past recency bias with the club it it looks like the future is very promising once things finally start clicking on the field. Think this is a great idea I remember hearing about when Kini first signed through @mdrew
 
Hail Sezer said:
Kini is still U18 so if I was comparing them all at that same age, it'd be very close between him and AJ. Gun to my head, I'd say Keano has been the best at U18 level. Then AJ, De Groot, and then JC (who bloomed very late but really took off once he did).

They're all very different stylistically too. Keano is a dynamic runner of the ball, great footwork, very quick with great balance and agility. Breaks plenty of tackles and hits the contact hard. Just wrecks teams with how elusive he is. Has a passing game but it's a bit off-the-cuff instead of well-timed from shape. Makes tough 1 on 1 tackles. Then De Groot at the other end of the scale is very much a role-player as a fullback. Positioning spot on, safe as houses, always finds himself around the ball, does plenty of work off the ball, ultimate support player - someone you can plug into a system and give a role and he should execute.

The biggest question with Keano is going to be what position he settles in to. His strengths are best displayed as a fullback in juniors but I think with the right coaching many see his future as a 5/8 (and the Titans have tried to play him there for a few of their age-group JTS exhibition games).

@mdrew feel free to jump in mate, interested to hear your thoughts here
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I agree that Keano is some sort of player regardless of position but like you, for me his best position at present is fullback but in NZ he played a lot of five eight. It is really a tough one in terms of best position but I could really see him flourishing at five eight alongside Tom Weaver for example who is am excellent game manager who would free up Keano to play what he sees in front of him.

I have a huge wrap on Jaylan De Groot however and see him as a Clint Gutherson type of player and a ten year NRL player.
 
Keano Kini gets an opportunity to show his undoubted ability this evening when he starts at fullback for PBC SHS against Marsden SHS in Round One of the 2022 School Boy Langer Cup competition.
 
mdrew said:
Keano Kini gets an opportunity to show his undoubted ability this evening when he starts at fullback for PBC SHS against Marsden SHS in Round One of the 2022 School Boy Langer Cup competition.
Click to expand...

As mdrew says, Langer Cup round 1 kicks off tonight. I'm going to post teamlists and game times below, and attempt to bold the Titans JTS contracted boys (thanks mdrew for your help in the background). Apologies for anyone i've missed, any onlookers please feel free to correct me.

All games are live-streamed on the Courier Mail website.

5.30pm Langer Trophy: Ipswich SHS v Keebra SHS

Ipswich SHS: 1. Tyler Peckham-Harris, 2. Kulu Baruani, 3. Caleb Jackson, 4. Tre Fotu, 5. Anton Naiyep, 6. James Frazer, 7. Jalen Afamasaga, 15. Josiah Pahulu (c), 9. Tommy Luhrman, 8. Ahmani Leilua, 11. Xavier Sofeni, 12. Oliva Iaulualo, 13. Jack Laing: Interchange: 14. Gabriel Satrick, 16. Maaro David, 17. Cayleb Johnson, 10. Loko Tonga.

Keebra Park SHS: 1. Karauria Stokes, 2. Munga Baruani, 3. Dorian Lotaki, 4. Taniela Mapusua-Lotaki, 5. Jeremaiah Tamepo, 6. Xavier Asi, 7. Jaxen Yow, 8. PJ Poutasi, 9. Gary Herlihy, 10. Eli Tuli, 11. Seth Nikotemo, 12. EJ Finau, 13. Arama Hau: Interchange: 14. Jodeci Letalu, 15. Jared Johnson, 16. Immanuel Kalekale, 17. Wailer Whaiapu. 18. Lokea Motufoua, 19. Jett Bryce, 20. Isaiah ***alilo

6.00pm Langer Cup: Marsden v PBC SHS

Marsden SHS: 1. Dominic Sandow, 2. Tuvaka Palu, 3. Devonte Vaivela, 4. Shannon Subritzky Stewart, 5. Teapo Stoltman, 6. Apa Twidle, 7. Coby Black, 8. VJ Semu, 9. Kylem Vunipol, 10. Mou Taumaletila- Maulolo, 11. Te Anau Graham-Papali’i, 12. Jieye Mauai, 13. Chris Faagutu (c), 14. Cody Hamilton, 15. Taelon Te Whiu Hopa, 16. Bailey Trew, 17.

Palm Beach Currumbin: 1 Keano Kini, 2 Blake Forder, 3 Michael Roberts, 4 Cooper Cambey, 5 Jett Forbes, 6 Josh Lynn, 7 Zane Harrison, 8 Isaiah Scanlan, 9 Tanu Nona, 10 Reico Ratana, 11 Brady Turner, 12 Will Taylor, 13 Jackson Le Pou, 14 Bailey McConnell 15 Jac Finnigan, 16 Jaylen Taewa, 17 Cooper Wolf

Coombabah SHS v Wavell SHS

Coombabah SHS: 1. Shannon Donaldson, 2. Ryan McCann, 3. Kane Garland, 4. Jack McKenzie, 5. Izayah Petricevich, 6. Hunter Innes, 7. Jaxon Denny, 8. Boston Riggs-Albert, 9. Jhett Pilcher, 10. K-ci Whare ©, 11. Kyen Murphy ©, 12. Lewis Symonds, 13. Junior Filimaua, 14. Braydan Wong, 15. Dwayne Ckwan-Fuimaono, 16. Ben Roadnight, 17. Neziah Patuua, 18. Mokena Marsh, 19. Cassius Whale, 20. Tom McKenna

Wavell SHS: 1. Ambichi, Jayden, 2. Callaghan, Joshua, 3. Hotere-Papalii, Po 4. Tuialii, Mark, 5. Tait, Tyreece, 6. Oloapu, Karl, 7. Fitness, Arthur, 8. Neemia, Damascus, 9. Murray, Bristowe, 10. Uini, Ben, 11. Iose, D’Metrius, 12. Taua, Nazareth, 13. Salei, Loto 14. Camilleri, Jai, 15. Jones, Ethan, 16. Taula, Christian, 17. Butt, Jayden, 18. Waqa, Michael, 19. Tuialii, Amos, 20. Sologinkin, Will.

- - - Updated - - -

Key thing to keep in mind is that those ones bolded can be anywhere from year 10 to year 12. Some of the year 12's will progress immediately to working the NRL squad next year in some capacity (you can find some of the known names in the above lists), while some of the younger ones will still have more years at school. Some will finish school and not progress from the JTS system. Others will be poached (like Michael Roberts was, thanks Wayne).

For some perspective - 4-5 years ago, the Titans had maybe 1 or 2 contracted in each of the PBC and Keebra sides. And that would literally be it. No presence in their local schools whatsoever, let alone the Brisbane schools.

I won't be posting team lists every week but hopefully this gives a good overview.
 
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Titanic said:
Great thread HS with a nod to mdrew for his continued efforts. Could I suggest at some stage there might a bit added about the personalities behind the scenes and how the identification and recruitment process works.
Click to expand...

This is a great idea T. I'll probably lean on mdrew a bit for that because I'm particularly out of touch with the Northern Rivers catchment area and systems they have down there. Leave it with me.
 
Thanks for posting about the Courier Mail livestreams. It's great to be reminded.

If we follow through with this, you'll be able to say that you saw our stars of the future playing as school boys.
 
Call on Tom Weaver, Klese Haas vindicates: Big hits from Tweed Seagulls’ rising stars

Nick Wright, GCB, 29/05/2022

If the likes of Tom Weaver are to ascend into the NRL ranks, they need to be given the time and chance to blossom.

That is the opinion of Tweed Colts coach Aaron Zimmerle, who has called for calm when it comes to his raw but talented young halfback.

Weaver’s potential was shown throughout his schoolboys and junior rugby league days, with highlights including player of the grand final honours in the 2021 Mal Meninga Cup.

Such performances earnt himself a spot in the Gold Coast Titans 36-man extended squad until 2024 upon his graduation from Palm Beach Currumbin State High.

On Saturday Weaver’s potential was on show again, where even towards the end of the Seagulls 28-6 triumph over North Devils he kept the pressure on.

At one stage the 19-year-old forced back-to-back goal line drop outs before setting up a try late in the contest.

Zimmerle said he had no doubt that Weaver would one day feature in the NRL, such was the calibre he had proven to be at the younger levels.

However he has called for commentators and pundits alike to be patient with the emerging number seven, and not burden him with expectations of being the finished product too early.

“I think you have to simplify the pathway for him. Tommy wants to be really good at this level, which he is, but he’ll be disappointed with a couple of things in terms of the results of his kicks,” Zimmerle said.

“I know he’ll go away and work individually hard on that, and then next week we’ll play and he’ll execute. In doing that, if an opportunity arises he’ll be right for (Queensland) Cup. “There’ll be big bodies coming at him, but there’ll be big bodies around him, and because he’s got that ability to execute skill he’ll be good at that level.

“Then we need to stop rushing, because if he wants to become comfortable at the NRL he needs to play against men and with men for a period of time. He needs to get comfortable pulling the strings with people who have played at the highest level.

“He needs that time, he’s got to do his apprenticeship, and I’ve got no doubt that when he gets there he’ll be one of the best apprentices you can have. But we have to stop rushing.”

It are those some hurried expectations passed on to other young players in the NRL which irk Zimmerle, as the demands to live up to the hype and dollars thrown at athletes play out in public.

He pointed to the likes of Titans general Toby Sexton and Cowboys gun Tom Dearden — two 21-year-old’s who have already dealt with their fair share of criticism despite their rookie status as first-grade halves.

Dearden endured a torrid time at the Brisbane Broncos, first hailed the heir apparent to the likes of Allan Langer and Darren Lockyer only to be shown the door when he failed to make an immediate impression.

Once he made the move to Townsville to join the North Queensland Cowboys and was partnered with an NRL champion in Chad Townsend, the noise around him settled and he has now undergone a breakout campaign.

Sexton meanwhile has copped brunt at times in the Titans woeful start to the 2022 season, even with only 16 caps to his name as he and former fullback AJ Brimson forge a new halves pairing at the club.

Zimmerle has mentored the likes of Weaver since he was in high school, the Tweed coach himself a teacher and former coach at the esteemed rugby league Academy.

He said spectators and critics often failed to truly appreciate just how much work these teenagers put into honing their craft, and they needed to appreciate not even the likes of Johnathan Thurston and Cooper Cronk became the future legends of the game they became.

“Tommy (Dearden) had a rough patch last year, and now he’s in a team with a senior ballplayer and he’s killing it,” Zimmerle said.

“Toby has had moments and he’s had games where he’s probably gone back and had to work on things, but he’s 21 and learning his craft on the run. I think he’s the leading half for repeat sets in terms of kicks made, that’s amazing.

“Blokes at 30 are not able to do what they’re doing right now, and Tommy (Weaver) is going to be one of them. He’s got the same skillset, the same work ethic, we’ve just got to give him time.”

HAAS CELEBRATES DEAL IN STYLE

Mere days earlier Seagulls edge forward Klese Haas was celebrating a two-year deal with the Gold Coast Titans. And the youngster reaffirmed that faith with a try-scoring effort against the Devils.

Haas will have the chance to push for an NRL debut from 2023 with the Titans, and his efforts on Saturday would have been a satisfying vindication.

Zimmerle said the 19-year-old’s rotation with lock Charlie Murray had been a key threat for Tweed in a disruptive, weather effected campaign, and it was on show again against Norths.

“We are very lucky at the moment in that Klese as a backrower, and then Charlie Murray. A little bit more than halfway in the first half we flipped Klese and Charlie Murray so that there’s no substitutions,” he said.

“Klese is just a damaging ball runner and then goes into the middle and wreaks havoc. Then you’ve got Charlie Murray who’s a great ball playing middle forward, then goes out on the edge and ball plays.

“Muzz set up one try, you had Klese making clean breaks through the middle of the ruck, it’s just hard for the opposition because they’re so different in their styles but both of them are intense and they play at 100 per cent.”

Haas, fullback Jaylan De Groot and Taine Ujur-Berghan all crossed to score in the rescheduled Round 1 clash, while centre Kaleb Ngamanu helped himself to a double.
 
Under 19s origin announced will be good to see the next best young kids hopefully we'll see one or two titans in the side
 
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