JunctionBlock
Moderator
Do we actively try and avoid the 8 for early holidays?
Round 11. KNIGHTS vs TITANS (2023)
- Thread starter DIEHARD
- Start date
Titanic
Immortal
A joke … just can’t bring myself to comment further other than wtf Foran revving them after conceding 46 what about at halftime when the goddamned bench needed it.
Whats Doing
Rep Player
We were soft as marshmallows in the forwards and got dominated physically. Even in games we win our forwards are just not physical enough which is why we just never dominate in any game.
We also just have no depth on the bench who were all poor today except for Leeming.
Was Stimson worse game of the season running a staggering 18 metres and missing 7 tackles and Randal who did not trouble the defence by not taking a single run.
We also just have no depth on the bench who were all poor today except for Leeming.
Was Stimson worse game of the season running a staggering 18 metres and missing 7 tackles and Randal who did not trouble the defence by not taking a single run.
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Titanic Believer
QLD Cup
How many weeks in a row have we scored 26 points? Vossy onto something? Happily I'm overseas so I had excuse not to watch. So no hopes up = no let down.
RavShamrock
First Grader
Except for Leeming...with all due respect mate and not judging his performance today but I'd love for someone to conduct a for and against points whilst Leeming has been on the field. Maybe just coincidence with other weaker bench players on as well but I feel like we get smashed when Leeming is on?
Cowabunga
Rep Player
There's a fair bit of context to that to be fair... I reckon no bench player is being used to their best abilities due how Holbrook uses our bench.
Whats Doing
Rep Player
The points for and against cannot determine the ability or effectiveness of a player as there are so many variables. Whilst Leeming is not a strong defender the tries scored by the Knights today when Leeming was on were all scored by the Knights outside backs (Best, Gagai and Young) where Leeming had no impact on the tries that were scored. This just exemplifies why you cannot base performance on the teams for and against but rather their individual performance and their contribution to the teams performance.
Cowabunga
Rep Player
Also the only times I think he's played is when we're leaking points and 20 left in the game, Of course his +/- will be bad.
All stats are useless without context pretty much.
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MaroonTitan
QLD Cup
TBF, the Knights were barely onside all second half. However, we should have been better. We know we need to take it out of the hands of the officials and that was our game to win. We thought we'd score off every play early and neglected the game in its essence. How's that Psychologist going? Did they have the week off?
As a Titans fan, i almost expected that performance and I feel bad about that. We should expect more as fans, players, officials, etc.
A few players will have some deep regrets in the video room. The bench rotation as usual wasn't optimal but a better spread of minutes than normal.
As a Titans fan, i almost expected that performance and I feel bad about that. We should expect more as fans, players, officials, etc.
A few players will have some deep regrets in the video room. The bench rotation as usual wasn't optimal but a better spread of minutes than normal.
Watched the game on delay after looking at the final score. We got outmuscled all over the field. Marzhew and Best killed us when starting their sets and their middles and edge back rowers flew out of the line all day and gave us no opportunity to get a roll on. Hard to say that the bench was awful but they were just ineffective at competing with bigger stronger players.
Nice to see the coach annoyed after the game. I’d be interested to know who everyone thinks played poorly because I didn’t think there was anybody that was especially bad. I do feel that we are carrying players in the game day 17 that have low ceilings but have had their best games in recent weeks which has provided some false hope.
Nice to see the coach annoyed after the game. I’d be interested to know who everyone thinks played poorly because I didn’t think there was anybody that was especially bad. I do feel that we are carrying players in the game day 17 that have low ceilings but have had their best games in recent weeks which has provided some false hope.
Cowabunga
Rep Player
If it's not Kelly getting dropped my mind will be completely fried, The effort on the half time try was completely inexcusable for me... JC wasn't in great position but if BK just gave a bit of effort and turns around to chase with Frizell it's not a try...... JUST A BIT imo.
Holbrook can be angry about efforts or performances but he promotes it most weeks, Kelly has been allowed to get away with whatever he wants on defence for seasons now but Schoupp got dropped for a few misses when he's 21 and was a pretty dam good performer. Jojo shouldn't be dropped either for his mistakes but probably will be the way Holbrook does things.
As much as Sami has been good his defence has been pretty bad in most games, He's just been making it up with great performances with the ball that aren't sustainble. Jojo needs to stop trusting his speed and being passive, just hit dudes but I'm Ok with him learning.
There's not even much to learn from all our losses which is what is so fustrating, Most of the reasons we've lost are all the same and are pretty simple. Holbrook is constantly putting our bench in horrible situations and our starters. I don't blame our bench at all... They're trying hard.... They suck but they are trying... The issue is that we've been dealing with this since the 2nd round and Holbrook still has no clue on our interchange.
I'm OK with losing... I'm angry that we're not putting our 17 in the best positions to win despite the talent on the bench... We've had 10 weeks to figure it out and we're no closer at all, if anything we're further away and worse off.... We're going to have no Fifi or Tino coming up....
Holbrook can be angry about efforts or performances but he promotes it most weeks, Kelly has been allowed to get away with whatever he wants on defence for seasons now but Schoupp got dropped for a few misses when he's 21 and was a pretty dam good performer. Jojo shouldn't be dropped either for his mistakes but probably will be the way Holbrook does things.
As much as Sami has been good his defence has been pretty bad in most games, He's just been making it up with great performances with the ball that aren't sustainble. Jojo needs to stop trusting his speed and being passive, just hit dudes but I'm Ok with him learning.
There's not even much to learn from all our losses which is what is so fustrating, Most of the reasons we've lost are all the same and are pretty simple. Holbrook is constantly putting our bench in horrible situations and our starters. I don't blame our bench at all... They're trying hard.... They suck but they are trying... The issue is that we've been dealing with this since the 2nd round and Holbrook still has no clue on our interchange.
I'm OK with losing... I'm angry that we're not putting our 17 in the best positions to win despite the talent on the bench... We've had 10 weeks to figure it out and we're no closer at all, if anything we're further away and worse off.... We're going to have no Fifi or Tino coming up....
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gotitans101_
Coach
Bring back Schoupp. I like that guy. Never really thought he deserved to be dropped in the first place.
Kelly is a strong ball runner but that's about it really. Tired of all his piss-ant efforts in all other areas of his game.
Kelly is a strong ball runner but that's about it really. Tired of all his piss-ant efforts in all other areas of his game.
indoallstars
First Grader
Was at this game in Newcastle today and the biggest difference I noticed from the previous game I went to earlier in the year was how quiet the Titans were in communication.
Both games I was based around the halfway line and close to the front. There was no communication, talking or energy from the edges (Lofi, BK, Foran, Fifita), they literally weren't structured and never set in there defensive line, we are actually lucky because the Knights had a few overlaps on various occasions but didn't shift the ball (thankfully).
Then the second half I noticed the exact same thing, no communication or talking from Sami, Jojo - but I will give praise to Tanah he was trying to set structures for his side of the field and get them into attacking shape, even though everyone else was passive.
All in all the team looked like they had no energy, didn't want to be there today and weren't supporting each other. You could tell from the first 5 minutes we were going to lose the game, playing as individuals and not as a team.
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I also forgot to say the previous game I was at Foran was constantly barking at Fifita to get into defensive position, constantly telling Alofi where to move to in the attacking shape, just non stop talking ("get here, move there, stay on my hip, get into the line etc). Today's game absolutely silence.
Both games I was based around the halfway line and close to the front. There was no communication, talking or energy from the edges (Lofi, BK, Foran, Fifita), they literally weren't structured and never set in there defensive line, we are actually lucky because the Knights had a few overlaps on various occasions but didn't shift the ball (thankfully).
Then the second half I noticed the exact same thing, no communication or talking from Sami, Jojo - but I will give praise to Tanah he was trying to set structures for his side of the field and get them into attacking shape, even though everyone else was passive.
All in all the team looked like they had no energy, didn't want to be there today and weren't supporting each other. You could tell from the first 5 minutes we were going to lose the game, playing as individuals and not as a team.
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I also forgot to say the previous game I was at Foran was constantly barking at Fifita to get into defensive position, constantly telling Alofi where to move to in the attacking shape, just non stop talking ("get here, move there, stay on my hip, get into the line etc). Today's game absolutely silence.
Cowabunga
Rep Player
The talking isn't an issue on the left side imo but I'd have to look closer. They seem to connect and get it right most times and defence is good so I think that sides fine.
I think the clear thing FOR ME to do is Jojo to the left with Schoupp back to the right. Even before the loss I think most people here thought Schoupp never should've been dropped. We might sacrifice some attack in the short term on the left but bring Jojo in over there imo where he's not being asked to be the best defensive player or close to it in the team.. Schoupp proved way more then enough imo...
We've all said it but as a team and squad, Wtf are we doing dropping the defensive centre who's done well for the guy who's constantly done dumb stuff and continues to do it.... Wtf....
Stimson has given us so much effort and done an amazing job but the man is cooked and we have no other options, We can keep talking about it but Alick and Haas but neither are ready to play full time NRL.
We can keep complaining about forwards which is fully justifiable, but the clubs at least an effort to make sure it's not the same next year. I think Holbrooks use of our interchange and everything else needs some questions asked but that doesn't happen due to media...
Holbrooks decision to always bring on a 9 just when the other forwards get swapped so theirs no advantage is so crazy yet never been asked to him. I honestly feel Holbrook is a good coach from Monday to Thursday, The second a game hits he has no idea with his subs.....
I reckon he's costs us 10 or so games with his decisions in his time. I'm still so confused about him because I think he does pretty much everything else right besides game day.... Which is the biggest part hahahha.
I think the clear thing FOR ME to do is Jojo to the left with Schoupp back to the right. Even before the loss I think most people here thought Schoupp never should've been dropped. We might sacrifice some attack in the short term on the left but bring Jojo in over there imo where he's not being asked to be the best defensive player or close to it in the team.. Schoupp proved way more then enough imo...
We've all said it but as a team and squad, Wtf are we doing dropping the defensive centre who's done well for the guy who's constantly done dumb stuff and continues to do it.... Wtf....
Stimson has given us so much effort and done an amazing job but the man is cooked and we have no other options, We can keep talking about it but Alick and Haas but neither are ready to play full time NRL.
We can keep complaining about forwards which is fully justifiable, but the clubs at least an effort to make sure it's not the same next year. I think Holbrooks use of our interchange and everything else needs some questions asked but that doesn't happen due to media...
Holbrooks decision to always bring on a 9 just when the other forwards get swapped so theirs no advantage is so crazy yet never been asked to him. I honestly feel Holbrook is a good coach from Monday to Thursday, The second a game hits he has no idea with his subs.....
I reckon he's costs us 10 or so games with his decisions in his time. I'm still so confused about him because I think he does pretty much everything else right besides game day.... Which is the biggest part hahahha.
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Hail Sezer
Moderator
Pretty easy loss to diagnose really. We completed at only 69%, had moments lacking urgency and focus and our right edge got torched on D, mostly for being too passive. Neither team was particuarly good at earning field position but they were much better at finding points from a distance. Did anyone else think it looked like our spine didn't have much fluidity at times? Is Foz able to train during the week or is this injury going to see us just roll him out on gameday without any reps during the week and hope for the best? Either way, our D is the bigger concern. We were miles away from the weekend before.
On our work with the ball - For the most part Newy were over-committing to shutting down our left edge shifts from the inside (and pushing up outside Foz) and the one time we turned Fifita underneath early on he went through and scored. I would've liked to have seen some more of that or some variations in our angles at to scramble their numbers around the ruck a bit at the very least - we made it easy for them to defend against us but still scored 26 points. They've also got the worst defensive winger in the NRL on the left (sorry Marz but it's true) and we threw little to no shape at that edge to force him to make decisions.
46 is a big number to concede and when you look at their tries, there's a few consistencies and things that just shouldn't be happening at this level. I wouldn't usually bother with this but the way they sliced us up without even really building pressure is just U20's stuff:
-Dom Young catches ball in air and grounds it in one motion. Fair play there, pretty impressive.
-KP under zero pressure puts in a grubber that anyone can see Frizelle steaming onto it from a mile away but our left edge is caught napping. Lofi reacts far too late. BK sees it but instead of competing just subtly tries to run him off the ball. Big ask for JC to get to that ball even if he was slightly caught out of pos IMO. Can't help but think there was little communcation or awareness happening out there given the reaction.
-Marzhew's ball carrying arm is held up by Jojo and the high IQ Phil Sami gives Marz the assist by dragging him off Jojo and helping him to plant the ball.
-Klese Haas overcommits on a decoy runner forcing Tanah to be caught too far in and KP strolls through, passes to best who scores
-KP spots the mismatch and just 1v1's Iszac, made easier by Jojo/Sami being passive and already taking backwards steps outside him, so there's some space created there that he strolls through.
-Foran believes he's obstructed but it's inside shoulder and called a defensive decision. It's not easy for BK there but it's still a piss poor effort to try and solve it.
-Tanah drops it in the in-goal and they score
-Dom Young intercepts Foran's pass
Concentration, communication, urgency and intent all issues. Edge D is about understanding your role in the system, being connected with your inside and outside man and working hard within that. If you're a centre or winger, throw in knowing when to be passive or jam on shape. We're a fair way off with all of that on the right edge at the moment. I've been sulking about Schoupp being dropped for weeks and I think now it's pretty clear he needs to be back in at right centre. Jojo is a favourite of mine but he's struggling on that edge with his defensive decision making and I think he'd be better off on the left with Foran and Fifita on his inside.
Really interesting observation from indo about being at the game and the level of communication compared to what he'd seen previously, and that aligns with what I saw at the Manly game too. It's impossible to tell watching it on the TV so really appreciate the insight. Says a lot I think.
On our work with the ball - For the most part Newy were over-committing to shutting down our left edge shifts from the inside (and pushing up outside Foz) and the one time we turned Fifita underneath early on he went through and scored. I would've liked to have seen some more of that or some variations in our angles at to scramble their numbers around the ruck a bit at the very least - we made it easy for them to defend against us but still scored 26 points. They've also got the worst defensive winger in the NRL on the left (sorry Marz but it's true) and we threw little to no shape at that edge to force him to make decisions.
46 is a big number to concede and when you look at their tries, there's a few consistencies and things that just shouldn't be happening at this level. I wouldn't usually bother with this but the way they sliced us up without even really building pressure is just U20's stuff:
-Dom Young catches ball in air and grounds it in one motion. Fair play there, pretty impressive.
-KP under zero pressure puts in a grubber that anyone can see Frizelle steaming onto it from a mile away but our left edge is caught napping. Lofi reacts far too late. BK sees it but instead of competing just subtly tries to run him off the ball. Big ask for JC to get to that ball even if he was slightly caught out of pos IMO. Can't help but think there was little communcation or awareness happening out there given the reaction.
-Marzhew's ball carrying arm is held up by Jojo and the high IQ Phil Sami gives Marz the assist by dragging him off Jojo and helping him to plant the ball.
-Klese Haas overcommits on a decoy runner forcing Tanah to be caught too far in and KP strolls through, passes to best who scores
-KP spots the mismatch and just 1v1's Iszac, made easier by Jojo/Sami being passive and already taking backwards steps outside him, so there's some space created there that he strolls through.
-Foran believes he's obstructed but it's inside shoulder and called a defensive decision. It's not easy for BK there but it's still a piss poor effort to try and solve it.
-Tanah drops it in the in-goal and they score
-Dom Young intercepts Foran's pass
Concentration, communication, urgency and intent all issues. Edge D is about understanding your role in the system, being connected with your inside and outside man and working hard within that. If you're a centre or winger, throw in knowing when to be passive or jam on shape. We're a fair way off with all of that on the right edge at the moment. I've been sulking about Schoupp being dropped for weeks and I think now it's pretty clear he needs to be back in at right centre. Jojo is a favourite of mine but he's struggling on that edge with his defensive decision making and I think he'd be better off on the left with Foran and Fifita on his inside.
Really interesting observation from indo about being at the game and the level of communication compared to what he'd seen previously, and that aligns with what I saw at the Manly game too. It's impossible to tell watching it on the TV so really appreciate the insight. Says a lot I think.
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lonegull
Moderator
Great Point HS, your spot on about passive D. Another thing I did notice I cant remember which try it was but in the in goal half the titans players were on the left side of the post and the other players were standing to the right, not something you normally see.
Looks to me as though Klese and Isaac are a bit timid I know this comes with their age and experience but it like they are frightened to do anything out of the ordinary or at least try.
Also our blue shirt trainer is hardly on the field compare that to other teams, where as soon as the team gets the ball the blue shirt trainer is on helping set the attacking plays up and pinpointing weaknesses on the opposite defence, I hate this and it shouldn't be allowed for the trainer to run the plays but it something that the titans must do better and take advantage of like other teams
Looks to me as though Klese and Isaac are a bit timid I know this comes with their age and experience but it like they are frightened to do anything out of the ordinary or at least try.
Also our blue shirt trainer is hardly on the field compare that to other teams, where as soon as the team gets the ball the blue shirt trainer is on helping set the attacking plays up and pinpointing weaknesses on the opposite defence, I hate this and it shouldn't be allowed for the trainer to run the plays but it something that the titans must do better and take advantage of like other teams
MaroonTitan
QLD Cup
Always insightful HS. I'm very happy for Schoupp to come back and Jojo on the left. Do we give Foran another game to see how the wheeling out on gameday plan stands up? Probably wise before the bye and if needed, JC and Kini can come in afterwards. It might make it harder for Jojo with JC on the left but how long do we persist with BK when we know he's just not it?
I got the feeling that Klese and Jojo were doing a lot of learning on the job yesterday and will be better for it. The other thing is that Stimson looks like he needs a rest. Does he have another game in him before the bye? Alick was apparently very good on the weekend again and could be a handy bench player if Klese starts.