ROUND 11: TITANS vs SHARKS (2022)

[NZFan]

We showed in the last 10 when we have field position we can still create pressure and put points on. Thought our 7 was amongst a lot of our good things, as was our 1.

The issue is we conceded 3 tries in 10 minutes and the reason we got dominated in that period was largely due to some persisting issues - effort play, losing the ruck (and failing to set our A markers, scrambling our ruck D). Their 9 & 7 saw it and started nailing us with some variation to test lazy inside pressure and it compounded our troubles. For some reason Liu gets meme’d by a few on here for his value being good at the wrestle and defensively efficient but when you see what he brings in the ruck compared to McIntyre, Ese’ese and Lisone...it makes a huge difference.

Any news on Sami’s injury? Was pretty happy with his contribution again tonight

May thoughts exactly. Again, Sexton wasn’t bad at all, he’s just getting no help from his players around him.

Clarke wasn’t behind the play the ball until the third tackle in every set. AJ wasn’t digging into the line enough and our outside backs were getting monstered at the beginning of every set. Even the best 7’s would struggle when we barely make 40m a set and give away a minimum of 60. Sexton is also being asked to make a lot a tackles without much help. He’s already a much better defensive half than anyone that we had last year.

I’ll say it again but Lui needs to be coming off the bench in the middle to tighten up that ruck. I personally believe we need Marzhew back. We are still getting beaten on the outside, I don’t believe that comes solely down to him. At least when he’s in the team he gets our sets rolling. Yeah he gives away height but so does Thompson.

 

[DIEHARD]

I’ll say it again but Lui needs to be coming off the bench in the middle to tighten up that ruck. I personally believe we need Marzhew back. We are still getting beaten on the outside, I don’t believe that comes solely down to him. At least when he’s in the team he gets our sets rolling. Yeah he gives away height but so does Thompson.

Perhaps if Sami is out, Marzhew will come into the team.

I also agree that Sexton has a lot stacked against him. He doesn't enjoy a dominate forward pack or a hooker with slick, speedy service.

 

[shamus]

AJ to 1, Sexton to 6, Campbell to 7. Campbell has a much better bomb and more distance with clearance kicks. Sexton only made 10-15 Metres maximum when finding touch. And for the life of me why didn’t Thompson or Isaako cover for Campbell when he did kick? He has to chase his own kick to get everyone on side and when Miller got that lucky bounce he was off with no Titans fullback at home.

 

[Titslover]

AJ to 1, Sexton to 6, Campbell to 7. Campbell has a much better bomb and more distance with clearance kicks. Sexton only made 10-15 Metres maximum when finding touch. And for the life of me why didn’t Thompson or Isaako cover for Campbell when he did kick? He has to chase his own kick to get everyone on side and when Miller got that lucky bounce he was off with no Titans fullback at home.

The thought of Campbell defending in the line this year gives me nightmares mate. His kick returns are one of the deadliest aspects of his game, look at how he stepped half the Dragons side last week. And we dont want to kill the young fellas creativity and X-Factor by making him have to organise the whole team around, something he has never had to do at any level of the game.

 

[willhelm]

7 is about more than just bombs and kicks for touch. Campbell has never played 7 in his life as far as I'm aware. C'mon guys I know we're desperate but some of these calls are getting silly.

 

[Mexican titan]

7 is about more than just bombs and kicks for touch. Campbell has never played 7 in his life as far as I'm aware. C'mon guys I know we're desperate but some of these calls are getting silly.

Yeah they are but desperation does this I guess. Bottom line, is that we can't do anything with the 7 and 9 we have and we need ability and some class in those positions. All the alternatives are just rearranging the deckchairs I'm afraid. It's just the same old wash, rinse, repeat, that we have had to cop for a few seasons now.

 

[Hail Sezer]

Curious to get your opinion on Manly, MT - a team with a brilliant halfback who face similar woes to the Titans because of defensive inadequacies and an inability to control momentum swings.

What do you see as the solution there? Roster? Coaching? A healthy Tommy Turb?

 

[shamus]

The thought of Campbell defending in the line this year gives me nightmares mate. His kick returns are one of the deadliest aspects of his game, look at how he stepped half the Dragons side last week. And we dont want to kill the young fellas creativity and X-Factor by making him have to organise the whole team around, something he has never had to do at any level of the game.

7 is about more than just bombs and kicks for touch. Campbell has never played 7 in his life as far as I'm aware. C'mon guys I know we're desperate but some of these calls are getting silly.

My apologies for having an opinion. Scott Prince was a mediocre defender at the best of times. I know they started as 6’s but Lockyer and to a lesser degree Munster started as fullbacks. Jahrome Hughes played most of his career at fullback up until Bellamy moved him to 7. However, I will climb back into the closet now and keep my trap shut.

 

[Mexican titan]

Curious to get your opinion on Manly, MT - a team with a brilliant halfback who face similar woes to the Titans because of defensive inadequacies and an inability to control momentum swings.

What do you see as the solution there? Roster? Coaching? A healthy Tommy Turb?

Apologies for the delayed reply HS, in a vastly different time zone at the moment.

I think Manly's major issue is an out of shape roster. Certainly not coaching. We are paying big money for Tommy T and DCE, and substantial to Jake T and Marty T. This does not allow us to have many players in that 500k region and thus we have weak centres, an average hooker (not helped by Fainu being stood down for two seasons) and a few gaps in the forwards. Some of the young forwards haven't really kicked on this year as hoped, although some have had injuriy time out. A few similarities to the Titans. Having Tommy T for long periods is unhelpful but if we had a more even spread of talent, his loss wouldn't be as telling.

Another issue at Manly is that for years now we haven't been able to close games out after getting good leads. I've seen a number of 18-20 point leads get blown over recent years. Can't put my finger on why, but I am often happier if Manly play from behind and not score first or early. Of course not beating a top 4 side is a massive problem. This was an issue last season and saw no reason why it would change this year. Similar to what I thought with the Titans if our spine didn't fire, which has been the case in my opinion.

Overall though, a roster imbalance is the major issue I think. Hopefully DCE will be on less when he extends which will slowly start to allow some spending in other areas. Just my thoughts.

 

[willhelm]

My apologies for having an opinion. Scott Prince was a mediocre defender at the best of times. I know they started as 6’s but Lockyer and to a lesser degree Munster started as fullbacks. Jahrome Hughes played most of his career at fullback up until Bellamy moved him to 7. However, I will climb back into the closet now and keep my trap shut.

Lockyer, Munster and Hughes played in far superior systems that covered for any shortcomings while they developed. For us, I think the best strategy is to just accept that this season is a write-off and use it for development of key players like Sexton and Campbell. I fully agree that Sexton isn't performing to the level we need him to at the moment, but that doesn't mean we just cut him completely. He only has 15 games under his belt ffs. How many halfbacks have absolutely lit it up in the NRL from day 1? We have Foran coming to mentor him next year and the club has made it clear that Sexton is seen as our long-term 7. The talent is clearly there -- look at his short kicking game in the first half against the Dragons the other week. We just need to give him room to breathe and grow so he can do it more consistently with a calm mind. Taking the goalkicking duties is part of that, but having an experienced 6 next to him next year will be the best thing for him. Just look at how James Maloney helped Nathan Cleary develop.

The main issue for me is 9. Clark's service and game management are clearly not up to standard, but he has heart and I think we should keep him in a Jazz Tevaga-like role as a bench 13. At this point I've seen enough of Tanah Boyd to know that he's not the solution at 9 either, which means we need to go to market. A player like Reece Robson would give the biggest bang for buck in our squad. It has been mentioned several times in the signings & recruitment thread that the Cowboys were apparently willing to trade him for Leilua early. With Cotter currently playing like an absolute demon there's a slim chance the Cowboys may move him back to 9 and be willing to let Robson go.

 

[Whats Doing]

The issue for next year when Foran arrives is to where is AJ going to play. I am fine that JC is developing nicely and should keep him there.

I would rather Brimson move to 7 this year who has played this position as a junior and get him to take a more leadership role in the team and have Sexton and possibly Turner gain NRL experience this year without the added pressure of leading the team around the park.

In my opinion, a Foran/ Brimson halves pairing gives me more confidence to drive the team up the ladder.

Agree we should explore the Robson option

 

[willhelm]

The issue for next year when Foran arrives is to where is AJ going to play. I am fine that JC is developing nicely and should keep him there.

I would rather Brimson move to 7 this year who has played this position as a junior and get him to take a more leadership role in the team and have Sexton and possibly Turner gain NRL experience this year without the added pressure of leading the team around the park.

In my opinion, a Foran/ Brimson halves pairing gives me more confidence to drive the team up the ladder.

Agree we should explore the Robson option

Foran/Brimson is certainly an option, but I would prefer Sexton playing alongside Foran for his long-term development. He won't get it from playing QCup with the odd chat with Foran at training.

Assuming we don't sign a better hooker in the interim, next year I want a spine of Clark/Sexton/Foran/Campbell with Brimson replacing Kelly at left centre. The way the modern game is played, centre is a quasi-playmaking position that requires better than average lateral movement in defense. Some of the top teams over the last few years have had at least one spine-quality player in the centres:

Panthers - Burton/Crichton
Roosters - Manu
Cowboys - Holmes
Broncos - Staggs

I think Brimson's skillset is perfectly suited to it. Good short passing/kicking game, very fast off the mark with good lateral movement, but no long passing/kicking game. That just screams centre to me.

 

[Titslover]

Foran/Brimson is certainly an option, but I would prefer Sexton playing alongside Foran for his long-term development. He won't get it from playing QCup with the odd chat with Foran at training.

Assuming we don't sign a better hooker in the interim, next year I want a spine of Clark/Sexton/Foran/Campbell with Brimson replacing Kelly at left centre. The way the modern game is played, centre is a quasi-playmaking position that requires better than average lateral movement in defense. Some of the top teams over the last few years have had at least one spine-quality player in the centres:

Panthers - Burton/Crichton
Roosters - Manu
Cowboys - Holmes
Broncos - Staggs

I think Brimson's skillset is perfectly suited to it. Good short passing/kicking game, very fast off the mark with good lateral movement, but no long passing/kicking game. That just screams centre to me.

I’ve mentioned it before but I could like the idea of Brimmo at centre if we are able to train him into a bit of a roaming role, I don’t like the idea of him locked into one edge and I think his most dangerous footy has come from him sniffing around the ruck. It also may be the best option for the team but jeez poor AJ might start getting frustrated if he is moved again,3 positions in 3 years.

Also if we start next year with Clark as our first choice 9 again, the club has absolutely failed at recruitment.

 

[willhelm]

I’ve mentioned it before but I could like the idea of Brimmo at centre if we are able to train him into a bit of a roaming role, I don’t like the idea of him locked into one edge and I think his most dangerous footy has come from him sniffing around the ruck. It also may be the best option for the team but jeez poor AJ might start getting frustrated if he is moved again,3 positions in 3 years.

Also if we start next year with Clark as our first choice 9 again, the club has absolutely failed at recruitment.

I agree with you on that. I'd play him like Manu, who roams and plays like a second 5/8 in attack.

 

[DIEHARD]

I actually hadn't thought about how JC/Brimson/Sexton fit in with Foran next year. Hhhmmm....

And the world would be pretty stale with out a diversity of opinions. I enjoy reading people's ideas, even if they are left field.

 

[Titanic]

I'm underwhelmed by Brimson's contribution. I don't mean he's not having a dig but his skillset doesn't seem to fit 5/8. He's very much across field whether that be from poor service, game plan, state of play or his own limitations plus his long kicking me is well shy of what's required. Yep maybe left centre is it and then Sami moves to where his strengths are.

 

[indoallstars]

Could anyone see Brimson moving into the no 9 position, I feel his defense is good enough, he has a short kicking game, good awareness, can take off from dummy half, I just don't know how good his service would be. I think it would be worth trialing to see if it works. I'm also not opposed to AJ playing a roaming centre role next year.

 

[Hail Sezer]

Apologies for the delayed reply HS, in a vastly different time zone at the moment.

I think Manly's major issue is an out of shape roster. Certainly not coaching. We are paying big money for Tommy T and DCE, and substantial to Jake T and Marty T. This does not allow us to have many players in that 500k region and thus we have weak centres, an average hooker (not helped by Fainu being stood down for two seasons) and a few gaps in the forwards. Some of the young forwards haven't really kicked on this year as hoped, although some have had injuriy time out. A few similarities to the Titans. Having Tommy T for long periods is unhelpful but if we had a more even spread of talent, his loss wouldn't be as telling.

Another issue at Manly is that for years now we haven't been able to close games out after getting good leads. I've seen a number of 18-20 point leads get blown over recent years. Can't put my finger on why, but I am often happier if Manly play from behind and not score first or early. Of course not beating a top 4 side is a massive problem. This was an issue last season and saw no reason why it would change this year. Similar to what I thought with the Titans if our spine didn't fire, which has been the case in my opinion.

Overall though, a roster imbalance is the major issue I think. Hopefully DCE will be on less when he extends which will slowly start to allow some spending in other areas. Just my thoughts.

Enjoying some travel mate? How good.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that, some good points that make a lot of sense. Can only think that if Fainu had not found his way into some trouble that we could be talking about him as a top-tier hooker in the comp right now. Some excellent young talent too with Schuster and Koula (can they shift him to the left to get more attacking ball?). I'm probably in the minority but do enjoy watching Manly play and will have a bit more of a vested interest this year in watching Foran especially.

 

[Hail Sezer]

Foran/Brimson is certainly an option, but I would prefer Sexton playing alongside Foran for his long-term development. He won't get it from playing QCup with the odd chat with Foran at training.

Assuming we don't sign a better hooker in the interim, next year I want a spine of Clark/Sexton/Foran/Campbell with Brimson replacing Kelly at left centre. The way the modern game is played, centre is a quasi-playmaking position that requires better than average lateral movement in defense. Some of the top teams over the last few years have had at least one spine-quality player in the centres:

Panthers - Burton/Crichton
Roosters - Manu
Cowboys - Holmes
Broncos - Staggs

I think Brimson's skillset is perfectly suited to it. Good short passing/kicking game, very fast off the mark with good lateral movement, but no long passing/kicking game. That just screams centre to me.

Good post, good rationale and some nice examples to ice it off.

His exit-set work would be the biggest question mark for mine and his size would be a limitation with certain matchups. But if Sexton is the 7, Foran is our best 6, and JC (playing like he is) is too good to leave out. Brimson at left centre could be where he lands.

I don't like Brimson at 7 because he doesn't have the skillset or temperament for it at this level. His role as a 7 in juniors (MM/NYC) was still as a ball-runner and he got moved to 5/8 and then fullback pretty quickly where it better suited his skillset as he progressed. When I say juniors we're talking a long time ago too..2016/2017.

 

[willhelm]

Good post, good rationale and some nice examples to ice it off.

His exit-set work would be the biggest question mark for mine and his size would be a limitation with certain matchups. But if Sexton is the 7, Foran is our best 6, and JC (playing like he is) is too good to leave out. Brimson at left centre could be where he lands.

I don't like Brimson at 7 because he doesn't have the skillset or temperament for it at this level. His role as a 7 in juniors (MM/NYC) was still as a ball-runner and he got moved to 5/8 and then fullback pretty quickly where it better suited his skillset as he progressed. When I say juniors we're talking a long time ago too..2016/2017.

Can you clarify what you mean by exit-set work? You are right about his size, but I think his skill and tenacity can make up for it. Longer term, I think I'd like him back at 6 when Foran retires (or is inevitably injured...) so 23/24 may be a learning period for both AJ and Sexton.