Yeah they do, for sure. It’s his team that he picks so he needs to be held accountable. I more meant that it wasn’t the use of the interchange that lost the game today it was bad decisions made by players, some of who make decisions like that on a regular basis. There was nothing the coach could do sitting in his box to prevent those decisions.
Round 12: BULLDOGS vs TITANS (2023)
- Thread starter DIEHARD
- Start date
Yeah they do, for sure. It’s his team that he picks so he needs to be held accountable. I more meant that it wasn’t the use of the interchange that lost the game today it was bad decisions made by players, some of who make decisions like that on a regular basis. There was nothing the coach could do sitting in his box to prevent those decisions.
Hail Sezer
Moderator
Tbf Sami has been outperforming Lofi by a mile all year. Boyd hasn't warranted anything to be dropped and if anything has been good. Sexton hasn't done anyting to suggest he's the answer. I'm not dismissing NZF's opinion at all and think he's got a solid thought process - I'm just saying that suggesting the coach is an idiot for making selection decisions that are entirely rationale albeit not aligned with a personal opinion is just silly. Selection decisions aren't why we lost today.
Cowabunga
Rep Player
Selections aren't hurting us as much as Holbrook having no idea on how to use either a 9 off the bench or 14 unless there's injuries. He has made selections that cooked us a few games as well though, Our 14 doesn't even really matter with how they've been used unless there's an injury.
If it's not a typical prop interchange he doesn't know when or how to ever make them and hasn't shown any adjustments. It's the same problems pretty much every game. I can't believe how bad he still is at using a bench, If Tino and Moe weren't capable of playing 60 mins a game we'd be way worse.
If it's not a typical prop interchange he doesn't know when or how to ever make them and hasn't shown any adjustments. It's the same problems pretty much every game. I can't believe how bad he still is at using a bench, If Tino and Moe weren't capable of playing 60 mins a game we'd be way worse.
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Daz Dillinger
Junior
Burton spooked the crap out of JC and Sami!
To be fair, our short dropout contests were weak as well. No urgency whatsoever.
One positive…Jojo was good. Such a powerful runner. His heavy duty hit ups out of our end we’ve really been lacking.
Big contrast to Lofi getting manhandled every hit up.
That’s one Holbrook dilemma I understand.
To be fair, our short dropout contests were weak as well. No urgency whatsoever.
One positive…Jojo was good. Such a powerful runner. His heavy duty hit ups out of our end we’ve really been lacking.
Big contrast to Lofi getting manhandled every hit up.
That’s one Holbrook dilemma I understand.
JunctionBlock
Moderator
No issue with Sami, more the bloke that put him at wing. BK though, that guy getting picked and pumped up through socials all week does my head in. I like Boyd, we have no better option. Sexton was terrible personified.
Selections didn't cost us the game? I could argue that KP would have caught what BK watched bounce and Sami had a giggle about. Anyway, who knows, all we know is that we lost and didn't hit our 26 points.
Ok guys enough with the Bulldogs game...we can't win that one....ok...now onto the bye.....are we confident?
MaroonTitan
QLD Cup
I like you're optimism Nam. I'm really not sure if we can win the bye. We'll probably have one of the points in our pocket and it'll fall out at the end of the week as we reach for the other one. And probably all because we think we're a purple armadillo and don't deserve the two points.
Titanic
Immortal
Let’s face the obvious: (1) Sami plays much better on the right, today was revisiting his previous crap, (2) Foran is a busted liability after 20 mins; (3) Randall can go 80 mins; (4) we must have s real 14 like Sexton and bigger bodies like Mikaele and Alick on the bench because Clark, Vuna, IF and Haas are just not effective. But if the argument is we are developing them then (5) Lofi must be retained.
Hail Sezer
Moderator
Anyone else feel worse about this loss than the Dolphins or Knights one?
Atleast those sides played some reasonably good football to actually beat us. The Bulldogs are a poor side who played very average at best yet we just handed it to them without making them earn any of it. Once again we find ourselves in that position against possession flow/momentum where we lean toward low-percentage football, go looking for cheap wins, lose discipline, and end up gifting them opportunities in good field position.
I hate using high-level NRL.com stats to paint a picture of the game because it leaves a lot out but in this case it says enough. We completed at 84%, had the ball for longer, made more metres with the ball (and on avg.), more linebreaks, more tacklebreaks made less tackles, missed less tackles. Penalty count was 8-6 (we conceded 6) and error count was 5-9 (we're the 9). Now let's look at those penalties and errors:
-4/9 errors came in the last 20 minutes (and the context of these are all killer - Leeming drop when we had momentum in good ball, Tino off the kick off after we score, Liu & Foz in the 76th and 77th minute).
-4/6 penalties came in the last 20 minutes (and again - context is killer - Liu high tackle when we're defending an exit set, Tino lifting tackle on literally the very next set after they've kicked for touch, Fifita illegal strip when we're defending an exit set, Schoupp a lifting tackle when we're defending an exit set.
That's on top of gifting them two tries from not competing on Burton's bombs. It's also considering the context of the game when we're against a flow of possession and momentum where the most important thing is kicking to the corners and defending the exit set. And let's not forget the cheap-wins we go looking for in those circumstances either - 1 on 1 ball-strips that aren't on and we end up just losing the tackle and gifting them an extra 10m downfield (BK & Clark in particular), the attempted "big hits" when what we really need is a controlled tackle to slow the PTB, and the rest.
It's just so incredibly low IQ and immature football.
Atleast those sides played some reasonably good football to actually beat us. The Bulldogs are a poor side who played very average at best yet we just handed it to them without making them earn any of it. Once again we find ourselves in that position against possession flow/momentum where we lean toward low-percentage football, go looking for cheap wins, lose discipline, and end up gifting them opportunities in good field position.
I hate using high-level NRL.com stats to paint a picture of the game because it leaves a lot out but in this case it says enough. We completed at 84%, had the ball for longer, made more metres with the ball (and on avg.), more linebreaks, more tacklebreaks made less tackles, missed less tackles. Penalty count was 8-6 (we conceded 6) and error count was 5-9 (we're the 9). Now let's look at those penalties and errors:
-4/9 errors came in the last 20 minutes (and the context of these are all killer - Leeming drop when we had momentum in good ball, Tino off the kick off after we score, Liu & Foz in the 76th and 77th minute).
-4/6 penalties came in the last 20 minutes (and again - context is killer - Liu high tackle when we're defending an exit set, Tino lifting tackle on literally the very next set after they've kicked for touch, Fifita illegal strip when we're defending an exit set, Schoupp a lifting tackle when we're defending an exit set.
That's on top of gifting them two tries from not competing on Burton's bombs. It's also considering the context of the game when we're against a flow of possession and momentum where the most important thing is kicking to the corners and defending the exit set. And let's not forget the cheap-wins we go looking for in those circumstances either - 1 on 1 ball-strips that aren't on and we end up just losing the tackle and gifting them an extra 10m downfield (BK & Clark in particular), the attempted "big hits" when what we really need is a controlled tackle to slow the PTB, and the rest.
It's just so incredibly low IQ and immature football.
JunctionBlock
Moderator
This one hurts more because some of us complain about the bias against us for refereeing decisions and yesterday we basically had the ref in our pocket and still lost.
lonegull
Moderator
Agree JB not many games we have the referee on our side and this was one of them and still lost
Titanic
Immortal
Our incredible list of capitulations can only be put down to leadership. We do it so often we must be practicing those dumb plays e.g. Sami’s “hahaha” moment at not competing for kicks, wtf.
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Cowabunga
Rep Player
This game isway worse then any this season for me, probably the worse loss under Holbrook or even long time before that maybe, I can't remember a worse loss where everything bad about the team seemed to be so open to see. We've had way worse losses on points and the Dolphins one might be worse but they are at least a decent team, Bulldogs aren't close to them.
Yesterday seemed to be the tipping point for the team going down this path and we thought we'd hit rock bottom previously, I thought this was as low of a performance as I've seen. I can't remember seeing a NRL team ever this fragile mentally. The players seemed to turn on each other as well which hasn't happened after all these bad performances.
I think it's to far gone now and we have to clean out some players on top of the coaching. There's so much wrong about this team, I'm starting to wonder if they CGI'd our pre season.... How the hell are still this bad in all these areas. I'm really baffled by how this can keep happening.
The fact we're in 10th still is insane.
Yesterday seemed to be the tipping point for the team going down this path and we thought we'd hit rock bottom previously, I thought this was as low of a performance as I've seen. I can't remember seeing a NRL team ever this fragile mentally. The players seemed to turn on each other as well which hasn't happened after all these bad performances.
I think it's to far gone now and we have to clean out some players on top of the coaching. There's so much wrong about this team, I'm starting to wonder if they CGI'd our pre season.... How the hell are still this bad in all these areas. I'm really baffled by how this can keep happening.
The fact we're in 10th still is insane.
The Birdman
Rep Player
Box score watching, but I saw Kini ran for 260 metres for Burleigh and scored a try. Bring him in FFS because this season is a write-off if we keep going with the Holbrook no changes policy. It's time to get in the lab and start experimenting and dropping some of the underperforming quitters/single digit footy IQ types. Does anyone know Thomas Weaver's status as I see he didn't play on the weekend? Sexton did play for Tweed against the Jets despite still being listed as injured.
Let Foran rest his toe injury, or retire preferably. He's clearly not capable of playing 80 minutes anymore. BK can go learn to count to potato for a while too. Clark and Vuna have been allowing our middle defense to be abused for over a month now when they come on and have proven they are not NRL quality players.
1. Kini
2. LKP
3. Jojo
4. Schoupp
5. Sami
6. JC
7. Boyd
8. Mo
9. Randall
10. Tino
11. Fifita
12. Haas
13. Liu
14. Leeming/Weaver
15. Stimson
16. Makaele
17. Izsac F
Let Foran rest his toe injury, or retire preferably. He's clearly not capable of playing 80 minutes anymore. BK can go learn to count to potato for a while too. Clark and Vuna have been allowing our middle defense to be abused for over a month now when they come on and have proven they are not NRL quality players.
1. Kini
2. LKP
3. Jojo
4. Schoupp
5. Sami
6. JC
7. Boyd
8. Mo
9. Randall
10. Tino
11. Fifita
12. Haas
13. Liu
14. Leeming/Weaver
15. Stimson
16. Makaele
17. Izsac F
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Boonarga
First Grader
Oh look! You can bid on a jersey from this game. What a great memory to hang in the den.
Hail Sezer
Moderator
Weaver got a slight knee injury atm, nothing serious.
I really like your lineup. I'd even go so far as to bring in Maumalo for Sami just to give us 3 OB's with some yardage in them on exit sets to make up for Lofi. Sami is having a good season for sure but we get bullied for size coming out of yardage and the Maumalo/Schoupp/Jojo 1-2-3 on exit sets will be helpful.
Titanic
Immortal
I have to highlight Sami is having a good season on the right, on the left not so much. I don't know how we can justify the lack of defensive punch with Kini, Lofi and JC on the field at the same time, although that's what we need ten minutes from halftime so one of those goes to the bench.
1. JC
2. Lofi
3. Jojo
4. Schoupp
5. Sami
6. Sexton
7. Boyd
8. Tino
9. Randall
10. Mo (he drops his head when benched)
11. Fifita
12. Haas
13. Liu
14. Kini
15. Mikaele
16. Stimson
17. Give Alick a shot.
I like Fermor but I want to point out that his injury meant Fifita moved to the left and with that his second coming. Does that happen with Fifita on the right, I don't think so? 2024 should see Fermor playing where Fifita isn't, not the other way round.
1. JC
2. Lofi
3. Jojo
4. Schoupp
5. Sami
6. Sexton
7. Boyd
8. Tino
9. Randall
10. Mo (he drops his head when benched)
11. Fifita
12. Haas
13. Liu
14. Kini
15. Mikaele
16. Stimson
17. Give Alick a shot.
I like Fermor but I want to point out that his injury meant Fifita moved to the left and with that his second coming. Does that happen with Fifita on the right, I don't think so? 2024 should see Fermor playing where Fifita isn't, not the other way round.
The Birdman
Rep Player
I definitely could get around a Maumalo for Sami swap for the reasons you mentioned, although Sami is no major liability in that regard. Jojo's carries out of the red zone on the first and second tackle were great against the Bulldogs last week. You don't see many centres doing that much yardage work early in the set.