I get your frustration, JB, but if you are picked for the job, do it. We needed some field position, and our halves didn't deliver it. I also understand that we were exploring new possibilities but watching that capitulation live, hurt.
Round 14: TITANS vs SOUTHS (2023)
- Thread starter DIEHARD
- Start date
I get your frustration, JB, but if you are picked for the job, do it. We needed some field position, and our halves didn't deliver it. I also understand that we were exploring new possibilities but watching that capitulation live, hurt.
MaroonTitan
QLD Cup
Nailed it. We don't think we can win over the 80. Our halves started well, got behind and then started dropping the ball and panic-passing it forward unnecessarily. I think the rotation failed us once again. A few players were seriously less than (Klese didn't look like he belonged after the first 10min, Schoupp didn't play well, Jojo looks like a centre on the wing, Sami doesn't look like a centre's ****, Clark ..., and Randall was great as usual and deserved to stay on longer. Verrills was never going to turn us around in his first game back).
Stimson should have been rested well before halftime and after the week off, I really can't see him as a backrower from now on (even though he's good anywhere - until he runs out of puff). Start him as a middle or off the bench. Young Iszac was good early and didn't get many minutes.
I hope we're talking to Josh Hannay.
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AND GET A BLOODY PSYCHOLOGIST!!!
gotitans101_
Coach
Does anyone else think our team features too many attacking style of players instead of guys who work super hard off the ball, make a million tackles a game but still provide solid metres with the ball. Current-gen players to fit that mould would be Murray, Yeo, Carrigan, Hoppy, Matto, JDB, Tohu, hell even Cotter and Gilbert etc. Lesser so, you could throw in some of the more defensive outside backs in the comp who aren't spectacular with the ball but they go out there and do a job defensively.
Of course just one of those guys wouldn't change the final result but throw in a couple of them and surely it'd go a long way to tightening up our defence both in the middle and on the edges.
Of course just one of those guys wouldn't change the final result but throw in a couple of them and surely it'd go a long way to tightening up our defence both in the middle and on the edges.
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Boonarga
First Grader
Surely we are the worst in the comp at short kickoffs or drop outs. It's like they haven't been coached. It's not that hard to at least make it competitive. Failing that, abandon the damn things and stop giving away 30 metres each time.
gotitans101_
Coach
Also how demoralizing is it to have commentators (Warren Smith this time who is one of the best imo) constantly have to remind viewers of how awful we are when we're in front on the scoreboard. Like it's gotten to a point where it's just expected that we'll collapse no matter how many points we've put on the opposition. So humiliating as a Titans supporter but it's the damn truth.
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Titanic
Immortal
We don’t have the height to compete with the short kick offs. We insist on stacking the team with highlight reel players. The rotation doesn’t rest players strategically but burns them until they drop. We don’t have a rallying talker to lift the group on the field. We have some players who are so self conscious they hide their ineptitude behind joking or cool dude personas. The hard heads we have are being let down by the soft handed man-management. I don’t doubt that Holbrook can coach but I think his ability to read players mental state is nonexistent. Tino listened to himself in the presser tonight and didn’t like what he heard. I feel we are in serious trouble, Wests will take our edges apart. When JC, Kini, Haas, Clark, IF or Lofi take ball up then they are like mosquito bites.
Cowabunga
Rep Player
This teams a joke and it's becoming a chore to support them which I don't need in my life.
Tigers should actually beat us hahahahahhahahaha i'm done.
Tigers should actually beat us hahahahahhahahaha i'm done.
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gotitans101_
Coach
Does anyone know what our so called defensive coach Brett White has brought to the team?
At the start of the season I was gullible enough to believe that we'd improved in those areas. Nope.
At the start of the season I was gullible enough to believe that we'd improved in those areas. Nope.
gotitans101_
Coach
I just watched the presser, couldn't help but burst out laughing over this journo's questioning.
"The way they defend, Justin, is that how you coach the team to defend? They don't seem to really get up off the line and the edges just crumbling way too easily. Is that just the players playing that way or how they've been coached."
lmao.
"The way they defend, Justin, is that how you coach the team to defend? They don't seem to really get up off the line and the edges just crumbling way too easily. Is that just the players playing that way or how they've been coached."
lmao.
Whats Doing
Rep Player
We may have led at half time, but it looked like Souths could score at any time when they entered our 20. This was unsustainable for 80 minutes and the avalanche of tries occurred in the 2 nd half. But it was very evident in the 1st half.
The lines run by Ilias and Walker were brilliant which set up the space for their edge players which we could not or had the experience to defend.
Both centres Schoup and Sami were poor and unless we get some experience and quality there we are going to continue to bleed tries down the edges. Both were indecisive and Schoup also had trouble sticking after 1st contact. I can’t remember the last time we had any genuine quality centres but I am sure I will be reminded.
Our overall recruitment strategy is wrong where we have a junior pathway program which is good but have very little experience in 1st grade to help them develop particularly in the backline. Who is AKP, Jojo going to learn wing or centre play from unless we have a quality and experience in that position. Deine Mariner in the Broncos has Staggs and Farnworth to learn from and when Mariner steps into Farnworth centre position next year he will be well and truely ready. This is how you develop your pathway program IMO otherwise you have inexperience playing 1st grade learning on the job which creates the errors we are seeing and the lack of intensity over 80 minutes as they are not 80 minute match ready. It also delays their development if you have to learn your position in the job and creates other issues for the team as well.
Going into a game with so many rookies in IF, Klese, Tanah, JC , Jojo, AKP and Kini and a backline with very little match hardened quality was always going to be a recipe for disaster which is how it turned out.
The lines run by Ilias and Walker were brilliant which set up the space for their edge players which we could not or had the experience to defend.
Both centres Schoup and Sami were poor and unless we get some experience and quality there we are going to continue to bleed tries down the edges. Both were indecisive and Schoup also had trouble sticking after 1st contact. I can’t remember the last time we had any genuine quality centres but I am sure I will be reminded.
Our overall recruitment strategy is wrong where we have a junior pathway program which is good but have very little experience in 1st grade to help them develop particularly in the backline. Who is AKP, Jojo going to learn wing or centre play from unless we have a quality and experience in that position. Deine Mariner in the Broncos has Staggs and Farnworth to learn from and when Mariner steps into Farnworth centre position next year he will be well and truely ready. This is how you develop your pathway program IMO otherwise you have inexperience playing 1st grade learning on the job which creates the errors we are seeing and the lack of intensity over 80 minutes as they are not 80 minute match ready. It also delays their development if you have to learn your position in the job and creates other issues for the team as well.
Going into a game with so many rookies in IF, Klese, Tanah, JC , Jojo, AKP and Kini and a backline with very little match hardened quality was always going to be a recipe for disaster which is how it turned out.
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gotitans101_
Coach
Hard to argue with any of that. Great post.
Hail Sezer
Moderator
It's a tough one to swallow because they genuinely put so much time and resources into conditioning and D over pre-season. Wasn't all talk - they (the coaching staff and football department) really, really tried to fix it. So don't think you're gullible mate - the process was there to suggest we'd see some improvement.
And tbh, I think early on there were some signs we had improved. And there still are a couple - our edge systems look better for the most part, our kick chase +1 and defending exit sets has shown signs of being better depending on field position. I think our work in the actual ruck looks slightly better from a technical standpoint but we're still losing the middle quite comprehensively due to being too passive (which makes your edges passive and get exposed on early shifts) and our goal line D is particularly poor. And, we're literally last in the NRL for points conceded - no hiding it, we're the worst D team in the comp still.
You raised a point up there about certain types of personnel that I completely agree with. I'm big on rounding out a positional room with certain player profiles or styles and ours is still a bit unbalanced for mine. I think our middles look a lot better with Joliffe back but even Mo - who is an absolute animal with the ball - is a really poor middle defender when it comes to slowing the ruck. Obviously the challenge is being bound by salary cap and scarcity - e.g. those guys you mentioned up there are all very expensive and nearly impossible to pry out of their current clubs, but the thought process is right if you can find similar characteristics on a lesser scale and for less $. A few Kobe Hetheringtons for example. We're also a pretty small team on average in both height and weight 1-13 and that creates some disadvantages for us as well. Back to the middles, I think Verrills defends better than Randall (who I'm a fan of) but even Joliffe returning and Palasia coming in should shore that up a bit, but I'd like another body in that room that's an athletic, gritty defence frontloading maniac to raise the floor a bit. Then let Iszac (who is still a developing young middle) go back to Cup and be the ongoing project he should be.
All in all though, I think it really is coaching and the philosophy around what we're frontloading on the field, how we work against momentum, and how we fall back on system when the going gets tough - which is what all the good teams do. Our personnel isn't the best but it's better than a lot of other clubs. We're a team that looks nervous and confused on D and that creates hesitation. That creates passiveness. Edge D is a product of what's inside it and if your middle falls apart, doesn't get up as a unit or gets their spacing wrong, your edges will be exposed because of it. That, and poor defensive decision making from your 4 man (sorry Klese, it was hard to watch) will compound any errors inside and make it twice as hard to recover outside (your centres). It's why Schoupp is often having to jam or cover two at once - he's making up for errors inside him (that doesn't excuse his inability to stick in the contact but that's another story). Sami on the other hand...just doesn't know how to move with his edge on D but I won't go on because it's obvious he isn't a centre.
I saw Boon make a comment that we're closer to being a decent team than it seems and honestly I don't think he's that far off when you look at how good we are with the ball and dare I say first halves (I know lol). If we were just a middle of the road...not even top...just MIDDLE of the road team when it came to conceding points, we'd be in a very good spot. I don't think I've ever seen an NRL side be so good at one major part of the game and then so bad at another, but such is Titan's life I guess.
A few positives (which are still possible when you get pumped)
-Scoring 28 on the second best defensive side in the comp with 2/3 of the spine switched and a debutant at 1
-Tanah Boyd's continued development (had prob his best 40 minutes in the NRL that first half and against a top team)
-Keano getting a starting/FB debut and some tough lessons. Last night we saw maybe 0.5% of what he's going to be in 12 months time IMO.
Presser was a really hard watch lol
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MaroonTitan
QLD Cup
I agree with everything all you guys are saying. It seems like we all know what the issues are but the coach can't see them. I was surprised that Sami and Jojo didn't swap at kick off. There are selections and rotations that blind freddy can see aren't working.
I have some of the following questions most weeks:
- Can't we just play Jojo in the centres and leave him there?
- How can we keep picking Sami in the centres? Obviously Holbrook is seeing something that nobody else can see.
- Is Schoupp's defence good enough for NRL? It looked better at the Dogs.
- Does Brimo play 1,3 or 6?
- Why Clark? He's not playing his role.
- Who plays right second row? Klese put his hand up to go back to Cup.
- Time for Mikaele? If not now, when?
- On rotations, why do we cook players before resting them? Stimson should be coming off the bench at middle and enjoy the half-time break.
We're halfway through the season and we've just had the bye to clean up our act. What gives?
And does anyone know if we have a Psychologist for the players (and coach)? I really want to know. If we do, maybe we need a new one. If not, that tells us a lot about the thinking (or lack thereof) at the club.
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Oh and in terms of recruitment for experience, Jordan McLean would be great and more affordable given the Cowboys season. Hiku might be another one as I used to really rate him but haven't seen enough Cowboys games to know what's gone wrong for him this year. He could be a short term starter, then depth player that brings experience to the Club in the backs.
Those two could bring the nouse we need.
I have some of the following questions most weeks:
- Can't we just play Jojo in the centres and leave him there?
- How can we keep picking Sami in the centres? Obviously Holbrook is seeing something that nobody else can see.
- Is Schoupp's defence good enough for NRL? It looked better at the Dogs.
- Does Brimo play 1,3 or 6?
- Why Clark? He's not playing his role.
- Who plays right second row? Klese put his hand up to go back to Cup.
- Time for Mikaele? If not now, when?
- On rotations, why do we cook players before resting them? Stimson should be coming off the bench at middle and enjoy the half-time break.
We're halfway through the season and we've just had the bye to clean up our act. What gives?
And does anyone know if we have a Psychologist for the players (and coach)? I really want to know. If we do, maybe we need a new one. If not, that tells us a lot about the thinking (or lack thereof) at the club.
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Oh and in terms of recruitment for experience, Jordan McLean would be great and more affordable given the Cowboys season. Hiku might be another one as I used to really rate him but haven't seen enough Cowboys games to know what's gone wrong for him this year. He could be a short term starter, then depth player that brings experience to the Club in the backs.
Those two could bring the nouse we need.
Hail Sezer
Moderator
@MT re Schoupp...if you're wanting Jojo on the left, that's going to bring you more pain than Schoupp lol. Watch the 4-man and inside whenever they score against our right edge and you'll see why Schoupp is trying to resolve an error that's already been created in the edge system. Passive inside pressure or spacing not being covered creates a lose-lose for any centre/winger. He's fine at what he can control - can acknowledge he needs to stick better in the contact but the edge D issue is way beyond that
Whats Doing
Rep Player
Just a thought. We don’t seem to get Tallis down to training or do any pre match speeches. He is an Ambassador of the Titans and has publicly stated this year that his support is for the Titans. Well why not use him to better the team on an odd occasion. He did a pre season talk to the Broncos on the invitation of Walters so I am sure he would do something similar for the Titans or does not see the obvious and have something different on occasions as a different voice who is respected can make a difference sometimes.
MaroonTitan
QLD Cup
Yes mate, I see that too. It's more Schoupp's contact that worries me and I think Jojo does that better. Do you think Schoupp is a better problem solver than Jojo? It makes sense, given the experience.
I want AJ on the left next week.
Hail Sezer
Moderator
Yeah mate I think Jojo has some big challenges with solving problems at centre. Pretty much every game he's played there he's been exposed for decision making or not getting his movements right. I still think he's a centre long-term for sure but it's typical with a young guy in that position to struggle on D and he's desperate for some coaching from a specialist.
If not AJ then I don't know why Holbrook doesn't just put Schoupp on the left...it's where he played for the Dogs and prefers to tackle with his right shoulder.
MaroonTitan
QLD Cup
Good point but who would play on the right if Schoupp goes over to the left?
The Birdman
Rep Player
I agree with most of what you said but please no unless McLean is on a very cheap deal. He's got to be one of the most inconsistent middles in the competition. He has a good season once every three or four years. He's also not particularly physically dominant for a big-bodied middle.
Hail Sezer
Moderator
Jojo
I want him to learn the position. Just not at Schoupps expense because I reckon thats a backward move. I think they're hesitant to play Jojo on the left because that side of the field is unfamiliar to him and with some of his issues already that could be compounded. Schoupp shouldn't have that issue.